Podcast and Chill with MacG

00:00 Welcome to Podcasts. 00:29 I'm assuming this doesn't end well. 00:35 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to a special edition of Podcasts and Chill. Things are quite different today. I've got a special co-host who goes by the name of Mighty Jamie! If you're wondering why Mighty Jamie's here, it's because B. Frank is not available. LAUGHTER Sol is in America. Whoops. 00:55 No, no, but you're a friend of the show, man. Thank you for joining us, bro. Pleasure. 01:00 And also, we've got a special guest. He's the man of the moment. For those who don't know, he's a South African preacher, a political commentator, head of the Concerned South Africans group, and he's a member of the African National Congress. And everywhere you go this week, everybody's been talking about him. Please, ladies and gentlemen, make some noise for Bishop Azui Hangwi Maumera. What the fuck? 01:27 Welcome, welcome to the show, man. 01:30 I saw you came in Starlet, not your Lamborghini. Are you trying to keep a low profile? 01:36 Well, I do not own any Lamborghini. 01:39 I heard you own one. 01:41 No, that's not true. 01:42 Is it a McLaren? 01:43 Is it a McLaren? Which one is it, Mighty Jamie? Is it a Lamborghini? I think he's got a pick of the McLaren. 01:49 It's an old pick. I do not own those. I don't own any expensive car. 01:55 But you're an enthusiast. 01:57 I don't own any expensive car. 02:00 Okay. As you can see, there's no alcohol in the building today because we want to have a sober conversation. Yeah. 02:07 I understand. So hopefully, I think, you know, what we just want from you is just, you know, a transparent, truthful conversation. Because, you know, with priests, they like to hide behind scriptures and the word of God. But we may need some scriptures today. Why is that? 02:21 You'll see, you'll see. Let's talk. 02:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why was it important for you to call us and come on the show? 02:28 Well, there's been a lot of true pictures trending. 02:34 Yeah. 02:36 Those pictures show me sitting with General Svea at the strip club. 02:43 And then to which I felt that they're doing damage into my reputation. I've never been in a strip club. 02:49 I don't even drink alcohol. 02:52 I don't go into such places. Not even a pub, you know. 02:59 So I realized that there is a deeper problem. 03:06 which we are only dealing with the manifestations of the problem. Because when the system fades, you result into this hired gun to actually try to silence different voices. 03:23 So that picture, because if you look, I mean, I came with this cap deliberately. Yeah, yeah. If you look at that picture that are trending and you look at this cap, you will see that here is open. There is this side here. It is not there. 03:43 Secondly, if you look at these spectacles, this is the only pair of spectacles that I have for the past two years. In fact, I need to get a new one. 03:52 And if you look at these spectacles here, Makji, and this side, and here, They are not the same. 04:03 You know why? Because that is AI generated. The picture? Yes. 04:10 No, go and look at those pictures. 04:15 And, okay, look at my head. 04:19 And you take the head that is in the picture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even if you look at the face of general sphere. 04:24 But that head can be adjusted, so it can open. 04:27 No, I'm saying... Tato, can you put up the picture first, man? Yeah, let's put up the picture. If you look at that picture... Yeah, look at that picture. 04:34 Right? 04:35 Right? 04:37 Look at the cap. 04:38 Yeah, look, I'm happy to agree with you that this is an AI picture. But I think the question I was going to ask you is... No, no, no, let's wait. 04:50 Let's deal with that one. 04:51 No, that's AI. 04:52 Yeah, that's an AI picture. You look at the money that General Sevier is carrying in his hand. It's a dollar. 05:00 It's a dollar. 05:01 Not rents. Yeah. You understand? There is a ring there, if I'm not sure, in my finger. 05:09 I don't wear any ring. 05:12 I'm not married. I can't be having a ring in my finger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you could tell that there is an agenda. And then again, for those who knows me, you see, I'm always wearing a watch. 05:25 Yeah. 05:26 I don't make a mistake I'm always having my watch in my hand you look at that one You look at even the beers there, you could see that there is a serious agenda. So because of the deeper problems that we have in South Africa, do you understand? Because the problem, it is not the manifestations that you see. This one is a reaction. 05:52 When you encounter certain narratives, of course, you are going to face that. 05:58 I wouldn't be shocked if tomorrow I'm being arrested or today I'm being arrested for things that... For going to a strip club? There's a number of things that because there's even a rumor because that I responded to the media I make sure I was disturbing the law enforcement agents by allowing the media to interview me. Let's finish with this picture first. So who would take out an AI picture like this against you? 06:30 So I was approached by two gentlemen. They're from four ways. 06:34 I said, we see you as a potential, the DPT, I mean, a DSG of the ANC in the next elections of the ANC. 06:45 And I said, wow, good. If you see that one on me, but I don't see that in myself. 06:50 You don't know these guys. They just approached you from nowhere. 06:53 Well, for now, they are known to me. 06:56 So these guys, they did a presentation. 07:00 When they did a presentation, they said, you see how we have dealt with this politician. 07:06 And then there is this one and this one and this one. And they said, we are able to do an AI generated account to respond in anything bad that has been said to you. We can time it to make it bad to that particular person. A practical example was made. 07:25 And we had to respond on certain things that happened on, I think it was a melon garden or something. And it was like, okay, show me. I want you guys to respond for these five days. 07:38 And there were lots of accounts that were responding on YouTube. 07:42 No, no, I think we're well aware of what you're talking about. They're called bots. Yeah, bots, yes. Yeah, bots. 07:47 Those kind of things. So those guys that I met... 07:53 Even now, when there was these photos, I've been approached by two ladies. They said they're from Mondio. 08:02 And they said, if I can give them 500,000, they will run a nice campaign. They have more than 5,000 to 6,000 accounts that could respond to me. So what I knew is that I said, no, I'm not worried. 08:16 So I hear the personal attacks, but why? What are they trying to achieve? Why are they attacking you? 08:21 Look, there is... 08:24 A fictional battle within the SPS, which it was acknowledged in Madang. It has been talked, ventilated in Madang, even in the parliament. 08:36 But for a very long time after, I think after the apartheid, you, because of the failure of government, in addressing the successions of the SAPS and how these leaders are appointed. Because I can be very honest with you, most of the national commissioner are appointed politically with a strategy to protect a certain individual. 09:07 Because why is that when another president takes power, the sitting national commissioner gets to be removed from power? 09:16 It's a fair question, but I think before we move on to the National Commissioner and the factional battles and even the reaction to narratives that are not popular, the picture is clearly AI. I'm happy to concede that someone malicious posted that picture. Yes. However, the media reports are that General Sibiya was arrested at an adult entertainment facility or in the vicinity of an adult entertainment facility. And I don't know what it looks like on the inside. I've not been there. 09:47 But maybe what you can then clarify for us is what happened on that 21st day of September? 09:53 On Monday, I got a call from General Sibiya. I was in Pretoria at the time when he called me. I can't remember what... I think it was... 10:02 maybe two, three, past two, somewhere there. 10:07 So I then said to him, I'm in Prito. So General Sevilla said, I have been followed. 10:12 Because we've always been content about the safety around General Sevilla, which we tried to advocate for it because we knew that it's either General Sevilla can be killed, or been assassinated, or can be something terrible could happen. 10:39 And because he investigated many politicians And they would have to use this opportunity to pay revenge. 10:49 Is he still driving that car from Stuart James Shanick, the bulletproof one? 10:53 Well, I do not know which car is that. So let me not respond in things that I do not know. So you arrived when he was already there? No, I'm saying he called me. Yeah. 11:03 So because we're concerned, we know the safety concern around him. 11:08 So he said, I've been followed by a car. Remember, on Monday, police were at General Spears' house for search and seize in the morning, where they spent about three to four hours. 11:21 So he left his house, went to Sunten. While he was leaving, after his meeting in Sunten, he drove in Rivonia. 11:33 going to his home, right? 11:35 So he noticed that he's been followed by expensive cars that he would not thought these are police. 11:43 He then phoned me. When he called me, I said, no, chief, find a place where it's safe or phone your, I mean, your comrade, you are a police. You clearly would know who to call that could, because now I'm just a, you know, ordinary person. There's nothing that I could do to save you. 12:02 And he said, but he said, my bishop, this is serious. 12:06 Then he ended the call. 12:10 Then he turned wherever he went to. 12:14 After 30 minutes, he called me. 12:16 He said, found me in this area. So he said, I'm in Rivonia. I said, where? Where? He explained, he said, you know, this hotel in Rivonia, and that is next to, there is a Chinese restaurant that I have went with him before he said, you'll find me at the restaurant there. So in my mind, I'm like, this person, it's fine. I didn't even go there. 12:48 I proceeded to Rosebank from Pretoria. 12:52 When I was in Rosebank, entering the Rosebank Mall, he then called me again. He said, Bishop, I'm under siege. 13:02 Come where I told you I am. I said, I'm coming there. So you could see the police cars from outside? So in the time he communicated with me, there was an issue there, whether these are proper police. Because the person that had opened a case on the 18th, of this man's. 13:24 It's a person that is in a task team of the Madanga, which he knows him to be a driver of, he used to be a driver of one general. So this was a bodyguard of one general. 13:37 So which you would have to ask yourself some question. Does this person knows anything about investigation? Does he possess those? But it's for the law enforcement to deal with that issue. So, I mean, it's his colleague. They know each other. So they had to deal with whether there is a legitimate on whatever that they're talking about. And I'm told that took about two hours. 14:03 It's before I arrived. Some group of police left General Sevilla, went to Sunten Police Station. 14:11 As they went to Sunten Police Station. 14:13 So by the time I arrive, I'm arriving with them. 14:18 That is why when I said in media, General Sevilla, when he was arrested, I was there. Remember, there is a first exercise. 14:29 where police are there, all those cars are there. 14:33 You know, I remember when I entered to that vicinity, police were everywhere. These are the expensive cars that were everywhere. Very expensive cars. 14:43 Not normal. BMWs. So you knew that there were police cars? No, no, no. I didn't know. So when you saw expensive BMWs outside, you were like, these must be the ones. No, no, no. 14:53 There is one person I know. 14:55 who is, in fact, two that I know that are in that because we know some of them used to be drivers of these ministers and we know them. They've been protectors of other generals. We know them. You know that this one was the protector of this particular general. So you recognize some of them. So I recognize. 15:16 And then also to see the blue lights. Remember, I have a personal story where my brother and his wife was kidnapped by the people who pretended to be a police. Blue lights gang. With a blue light gang. And not even a blue light gang. 15:36 With even identification as a police. 15:39 Right? My brother was arrested. The person that helped us to locate my brother, it was General Sevilla because we called him when the police were sending us back and forth. 15:53 And he assisted us to find our brother. Was kidnapped for about four to five days. 15:58 All their money were taken. 16:00 Till today, they've not recovered. So this is how you know about the blue lights? I know the blue lights. Once a person tells me about the blue lights, I even have my own personal experience. 16:11 When I was coming from Pumalang, addressing the ANC meeting, a blue light car stopped me. The next thing... 16:22 I was in the boot of the car. 16:25 So when you talk about the issue of the blue lights, gang, I can tell you, because in my mind, there is this thing, are the police working with these gangs? 16:37 Because if a car that has a blue light and it's a golf... 16:41 That is painted. We know that there are people that are taking shots, but you wouldn't know. 16:45 That's why these days when the police stop me, I don't stop. But let's go back to the day, right? Yeah. 16:51 So you say you see the blue lights. I want to understand why is General Sabir calling you? What are you meant to do for him? Because it sounds like he's asking for your help. 17:01 Look, General Sabir is a friend to me. 17:05 Right? We know each other for some times. And we met in the things of God. 17:12 Generalism is a person who is, every Sunday you will find him at church. 17:17 Without not a mistake. He goes to church every Sunday. 17:23 He's a man that loves praying and he's a man that many, I have met many pastors through General Sphere. So when he's calling me, we had a discussion a week before and he said, I'm under siege, Bishop, and you're not doing anything. You're taking it lightly. 17:43 So we're in an issue where he says, can you please phone the minister of police, the acting minister, Kachalia? 17:52 I told him that I don't want to sound like Brown Mkotsi, where you talk to the police, then you are to the minister of police, particularly at this sensitive environment. 18:06 Because then I said to him, no, why don't you write to your minister? Because he is still your minister. 18:14 So is General Sibir calling you because he knows you have a relationship with the minister? 18:18 No, I don't have a relationship with the minister. I don't. 18:20 So how are you going to assist him then? 18:23 Look, it's by the call. You don't call a person because you've got a relationship with him. 18:28 But what would make the minister take your call? Like if he were to be told by his PA that there's a bishop trying to speak to you, Bishop Maumela, how would you know to take that call? 18:36 Look, the ministers and the president and deputy president, everybody's in government. 18:44 They are there to save us. 18:47 They are not voted to have this elective syndrome. They are there to serve us. When we have issues, there's nothing that says we can't talk to them. 19:02 I find it very, you know, shocking when people can't, don't expect a citizen of South Africa, even yourself. Even if you can just call a minister anytime. No, no, no. I'm saying when there is a matter of consent. You understand? Because if there are matters of consent, you call. You understand what I'm saying. And you must remember, everybody who is a minister, everyone who is a minister, they are members of community. 19:34 In some way, they come from. Do you understand what I'm saying? 19:38 Now... 19:40 You cannot then say that they do not have people whom they know. And when there are issues, you can't locate them. So do you end up helping him with that issue? No, I went because I know how sensitive the matter around journalism. Remember, the manifestations, it seems as the way it is. But we know what is the deeper problem. The deeper problem is the successions battle. 20:07 Which even General Mukwanas... By the way, I thank the press conference made by Mukwanas. Where I do not agree with Madanga is to use the people that comes from the PKTT, some of them, to investigate... 20:25 a certain individual. That's why today we do not have a WhatsApp that is coming from General Kale, the former minister, who slept at Kat's apartment. Why can't we not scrutinize that individual? Because how do you sleep in the house of a person known To be this dangerous. 20:46 We'll get into that, right? Yeah, we'll get into that, right? I want to ask you, you know, so Lieutenant General Shadrach Sabir, right? He was arrested on Monday for five charges, right? Rape, trafficking, sexual grooming of a child. The state also says an 18-year-old was also raped at a Sentin hotel after alcohol. So... 21:08 Knowing that you're a father and you've got a daughter yourself who you call princess, and you know someone has allegations like this, why would you still be in contact with them and want to assist them and even go to the lengths of going to where they are to assist them? 21:25 Look, when you said to me, I've been followed... 21:29 And you suspect there is danger. And we know there is danger around general sphere. Because they've investigated senior politicians. They have dealt with the case of AKA. He forced the arrest on the AKA. 21:43 That, to me, was enough that a friend might be in danger. No, I hear what you're saying, right? But let me respond to your question. 21:54 I'm saying to you, a person that understands the deeper problems... 21:59 and a person who do not understand the deeper problems, our response could not be the same in this matter. 22:07 Because you know what happens to Mama Winnie Mandela. 22:13 When a lot of people wanted her to be in the positions of power, concorded charges were made. 22:21 General SBA is not the first. So you think these charges are real? 22:27 Look, I don't want to be talking about the charges. 22:32 I talk about the motive how he was arrested. I don't want to deny that it did not happen or it happens because it involved a 16-year-old child. The reason why I went, I proceeded, sitting here today, it's just that I don't want to talk about it, but I don't believe that that these things could have happened. Knowing the environment and of what is happening around myself and Genesphere and those people. 23:10 By the way, you would see, it's on public that the person who opened the case, it's an associate to general. 23:18 It's a people that they are very closed. 23:22 And they fought before the churches were open. So you were privy to this information? I know the information. 23:30 So when you went there, you were aware that this could be about this? 23:32 Look, I was even aware that the case was open on the 18th. I was aware that there was a fight at police station because a docket arrived with no statement. 23:45 Like Fadiel Adams one? Yes. It's just empty. Just empty. And when it arrives, the lady that was asked to register the case, I don't know whether it's the lady or the guy, refused and said, I cannot register a case that the ID number is only three letters. 24:05 The ID number is not three. It's long letters. I understand they're saying that the matter is sensitive. Yes. But again, the person that is opening... 24:15 The case. 24:17 Okay, all right. This is no way to be. It's important to finish this line. This person is not in power to deal any inviscations. 24:26 Ordinarily, South Africa has an IP that deals with such an offense. 24:35 Secondly, you wouldn't just go to a police station's And you ask people to... And this person that you are asking them to do a job might lose their job. 24:48 Because I can tell you now, the person who have done that... 24:53 We don't know what is happening. So we can't disinformations. 24:58 Okay, Bishop, in terms of just the small point of IPED, this was not done in the course of duty. So is it accurate to say that IPED would be the appropriate investigating body? This sounds like it's a normal crime, not normal, of course, a serious crime. No, no, no. He is suspended. He's not fired. But a police officer committing a crime. So if a police officer breaks a window on a weekend, you open a normal case. IPED is not going to be activated for that. If a police officer does something in the course of duty. My brother. Yes. He's the deputy national commissioner. 25:31 So by virtue of that, your argument is it should have been investigated by IPED. My brother. 25:35 General Assembly is a deputy national commissioner who has been suspended. 25:40 And the law or the... 25:43 the guideline, let me not even say the law. It says that in the events, national commissioner or deputy national commissioner, if they committed crime, the NDP, which is ND Mutibi, these are the people that should deal with the matter. The warrant of arrest should come there. 26:03 Now, let's say for argument's sake, General Natsbya did that, right? 26:09 Number one, The organized crime, or not even an organized crime, a certain unit that deals with the GBV matter would have to be the one that goes. Because you need people that are well trained in dealing, because rape in South Africa is not a simple matter to prove it at court. 26:32 We have case law that you can refer to where a matter of this nature does happen and gets thrown away and states get to be sued a lot of money. So I'm saying to you, to find a driver, And a bodyguard of a certain, we used to be a bodyguard of a certain general, to be dealing with that. It's questionable. So this information had already arrived. 27:02 And in that, while you're still there, IP'd, by the way, phoned the Sun 10 police station. 27:10 And as we are ahead, even how thing has appeared. 27:14 phone the center police station. What is actually happening? Because we are hearing this matter. Even if you thought that we could do the cover up, it would have been important to alert us and so on. And the other thing that sounds questionable, The very same team of people who did the search and seize in the morning become the same people that arrest him in the afternoon. Why did you not arrest him in his own house if there is a matter? So you could see that the agenda is to embarrass and humiliate and to destroy. 27:52 That is the agenda because we cannot rubber stamp the issue of GBV. 27:59 And if he has done that, he must face the mighty law and he must not be protected of anything. But there's something that does not make sense. That why there is the way this matter, I mean, Kumail of Crime Intelligent was arrested, right? 28:18 He was at the cells, holding cells until he appears and until he got bailed. 28:24 You have a general severe who is the deputy national commissioner. 28:28 Who has a lot to lose? And then you send him at Khosimampur and you think there's no motive here. 28:35 Okay, before we go to that part, and we need to close the circle on the arrest day so that we have context. But you seem to know a lot about the police community, perhaps because of your friendship with General Sabia. 28:50 If I'm not mistaken, General Sentimule is the one who is in charge of detectives and also the gender violence desk. Is that not the case? 28:57 Well, but the team that arrested Tennessee... No, no, but I'm going somewhere with it, Bishop Mamele. I'm correct on that, right? No, no, no. I wouldn't be the right person to respond on that. Okay. The reason why I'm asking is because if... I mean, people who've been following the Madlanga Commission or just trying to get an understanding of everything will understand that General Sibiya was a supervisor of General Sentimule for a very long period of time and that both of them actually recommended General Shibiri... to occupy that position of head of organized crime component. 29:28 The point I'm making is that you are correct to say in a typical case, which didn't involve, let's say, General Sibiya, those may be the appropriate channels to channel that investigation. But because there's a potential conflict of interest, Because now General Sentimule and the people under her have to investigate somebody who has been their supervisor and superior for a long period of time. It can create a specific conflict. Don't you think so? 29:56 Well, I don't believe that. That there would be a conflict of interest? Look, it's not everybody. I mean, he's going through a disciplinary process. The person that is chairing that... 30:10 It's Makubo from Northwest, whom he has been, who is his senior. 30:17 So what is the conflict of interest there? But does Makubo work directly under Sibiya or did Makubo work? 30:24 I mean, he works under him. 30:27 But Sentimule is different because they were in the same office. She is somebody who reports directly to General Sibiya. 30:33 Why then did you not, if that you suggest that is a case, why was the hogs robbed in or the other unit rather than this one of Majanga? Because let me tell you what they are trying to do. 30:55 They're trying to say he's been arrested by Madlanga. Because he's been arrested by Madlanga team. 31:01 Justice Madlanga is very sensitive about that. There's no Madlanga test team. There's a commission recommendation test team. Otherwise we'll all be in trouble. Unless if you want to talk alone. No, no, no. He's going to say that if ever any of us goes to the commission... But then why don't you allow me... Go ahead. No, I'm just correcting the name. 31:17 I appeal to you, my brother, that even if you don't like my comment, 31:21 No, I'm okay with your comment. I'm neutral. 31:23 I will pursue you. 31:26 Just don't call it a Madlanga Tassim will be in trouble. 31:28 No, I will pursue you to listen to me. Yes. I'm saying to you, the team that have arrested Generous Veer is a team... 31:40 That is from Madlanga Commission. 31:41 It's a commission recommendation test team. Let's call it what it is. Do you want me to respond to you? Bishop, have you seen Madlanga? He's very sensitive about this issue. 31:50 Do you want me to respond to you? Yes, please. I'm saying the team that have arrested General Shadrach Sibir is from Madlanga. Even when they introduce themselves into the establishment. 32:06 And that's what they've said. We are from Madlanga. 32:09 And then we are here to arrest General Sevilla for this charge. And it was one charge of a rape of a 16-year-old child. 32:19 That is how they introduced themselves. So don't push your words to me. Yes, can you? 32:27 Since we're just talking about that day of the arrest, so Bishop, as a man of the cloth, right, and I have covered my knees in respect. 32:41 Well, you don't have to do that. 32:44 Because people, when they're asking a question, they start to do that. Is it because of where you were? You're trying to manipulate me. Just ask a question, I will respond. Don't put me in the corner. 32:55 So, at first, because obviously you said that we've accepted that the images that were circulating are AI generated. 33:04 I'm happy that you accepted. 33:05 Thank you. No, no, no, it's fine. It's fine. But... 33:11 You getting there. 33:13 And we know that the entrance there, when you enter that specific restaurant, as you've called it, the strip club, it's 1,500 rent for the buffet. So who paid for you and how did you enter? 33:28 Well, you are asking me things that is not related to me, really. Because I'm saying to you, in a place where we went, The only restaurant is not in the street club. I don't do street club. There is a hotel there. 33:45 There is even a Chinese restaurant. There is a Pakistan restaurant. 33:49 And then at this side, let me tell you where the police were standing. 33:55 They were standing not far from the entrance of the main, which the closest would be the hotel to enter inside. 34:04 Now, if you then ask me the 1.5 of all these things, the only thing I know, when you enter into the restaurant that is in the hotel, they will ask you, how can we help you today? And give you the menu. 34:15 The 1.5 things I do not know. So this was the buffet that you guys were having? 34:20 I did not have any food. 34:22 Let me tell you what I did. What was he eating? Look, when I arrived at the scene... 34:29 General, I arrived the same time with this. Remember I told you. With expensive cars. Do you remember I told you? Yes. The police arrived with General. 34:39 There is an issue there, validity of what they are saying. They drove to Santan Police. The other team left. 34:48 I arrived with the second team. 34:51 When I arrived with the second team, their cars were in front of me. 34:56 Mine was behind. Okay. So I parked this side. As I was arriving, General was being taken out. Of the restaurant. Which I could not see whether it was a hotel or whatever. They said there's a strip club, which I would want to go and check. How does that strip club look like? Because I've never been there. 35:17 And there's even an adult center. And there's even on the other side, you see the Pakistan and Chinese restaurant, which I always go with journalism here because I love the Chinese restaurant. It's very healthy, by the way. That's why I look young. So the 1,500, I don't know. 35:36 I don't understand. Why would a person to enter into a restaurant being charged 1.5? That's too much. That's the nature of the business. Bishop, you said you were eating in one of the other video clips, and now you're saying you were outside. 35:48 Well, I was being political. 35:51 What do you mean by that? I was caught up in the middle. 35:59 All right. Look, when... That's why I was asking. Look, I... Look... 36:06 Look, my brother, you see, the reason I explained to the ENCA interview is that they're showing you that small clip. 36:18 Yeah, yeah. Because I said to him, when I arrived, general has been taken. 36:24 He's been told these are charges. There's no warrant of arrest. The general kept quiet. People were talking. It's people that were with him. They were speaking for him. 36:34 So he had other people with him? Yeah. His protectors. Or the two protectors were with him in his vehicle. 36:41 Yeah. 36:42 Now, because those Madlanga task team wanted the phones. CRTT. I'm saying Madlanga and don't correct me when I said Madlanga. 36:54 because I understand what I'm saying. So if you correct me or fight him, and we're going to have a problem with that. 37:00 I'm saying to you, those Madlanga police wanted the phones for these guys, the protectors, and they were refusing with their cell phone. They said, you are arresting this one of a rape. 37:15 Why would you want our phone? 37:18 But because we know that the issue is not about the case of the rape. 37:22 is to get into general, because they could not for all these years when they were taking their phones and all things, because Madhanga has a team of inviscators. Even in the recommendation by the president, it says that the commissions would have to form up a team that would make, together with the national commissioner, for Madhanga, to investigate. So that is very clear. If you look at the recommendation of the president and you read it, read it through. 37:54 If you don't understand, ask for other people to interpret it for you. In that interview of Pule Jones, I'm explaining what happens. When General was taken out, I went and asked General, did you do what they are saying? 38:09 If you've done, I'm disappointed because it's going to dent you And dent my name. I said that in front of the police. 38:20 Then he said, Bishop, you know me. He asked me to stand with you. Asked the police to allow me to stand with him in the side. He said, Bishop, I did not do it. I have been framed. This was from his mouth. And I have no reason not to believe. Then I said, by who? You understand? Then I said, okay, let me just pray for you. 38:42 I prayed for him. 38:44 I took about four minutes to pray for him. I prayed for him. 38:50 I'm in a state of confusions, right? I start to call all his friends. 38:57 Do you think General have done this? 39:00 If you've done, why? 39:03 I'm so disappointed. 39:05 Then this one, then this one, and this one, until I called this one, not knowing that I'm calling the complainant. 39:13 Because then I phoned this one and I said, my brother, did you hear General has been arrested? Because these are friends that we went to Venda and they have a prayer at CCC. And the complainant was there. 39:28 Right? 39:29 And who are these friends? 39:31 No, let me not mention it because I might be in trouble because we are dealing with the Madangas people here. So this complaint, I was with him. We even went to the village with him, to my village. We left Tendul, went to the village. We ate. There was food that was arranged by my friends. We ate with General Sibiya and Robert Mabri. All of us were sitting there. When was this? 39:58 I can't remember the date, but I will give it to you before I leave this. So he's part of your guys' friend group, Robert McBride? I'm not saying. He's a comrade. 40:08 What, this year? 40:09 I don't do... It was this year. It's a comrade because we wanted a person because our prayer was basically looking at a state capture because we are in this problem because of the state capture. Because where we are, this targeting, It is precisely the minister, Minister Senzo, wanted to investigate the state capture report. 40:33 No, before we get into the targeting, can we finish the day? Because I don't want us to go back and forth. 40:37 So I'm saying I then walked out. 40:41 When I walked out, I walked out. 40:44 I walked just maybe a few meters away. I get into the restaurant, an African food restaurant. 40:56 When you walked out of what? Of the scene where these things, after I prayed for Janosby. 41:01 Because I'm in the state of shock. So the arrest was, I'm confused, was it inside or outside? It was outside. 41:07 Then you walked out. 41:08 I walked out of the main entrance. So I went to the African food to eat while they're processing him. I could hear what they're saying. I could hear the exchange between the protectors. 41:23 Because they're saying, you are arresting this man for rape. Why would you want my food? 41:29 Because the day the child, the day this event happens... 41:35 I was not there. These are the protectors are saying, I don't know anything, but why would you want my phone? Because you took my phone the first time when General, when they took the phones for General. Now you want to took it for the second time. Where would I get money? Well, you know, the police don't pay a lot. I'm using a very, and you look at the phone that the poor guy is using. You could even cry for him that at a second time, guys, this is an abuse and a gangsterism of the state that is manufacturing there. 42:04 Maiti, your last question regarding the day? 42:06 No, it's actually about the phones, because Bishop has mentioned the phones a few times to say there's nothing on General Sibir's phones. No, no, I didn't say there's nothing. You said they didn't find anything at Matlanga. I'm saying at Matlanga. I spoke about Matlanga. Yes, yes. So don't... No, no, no, what I'm saying... You must be taking a girl with words. Okay, okay, I'll be very accurate. I mean, in the previous interview with Zianda Ngogo, you had said that there was nothing on General Sibir's phone that was found at Matlanga. to be completed, the commission, that they didn't find anything on his phones. Now we're talking about different phones. 42:38 These are the phones of the protectors. The question that I have is related to this little piece of information. Surgeon Gorsi testified at the Matlanga Commission that on occasion, communication between Vusi Matlala and General Sibiya would go through him. Is it not possible that the protectors, who I think they are police officers, is how you're describing them, is it not possible that... 43:03 the same communications between various parties, not necessarily related to this, but maybe related to the broader investigation, as you're saying, it was a commission recommendation to ask him, arresting him, which you are describing with a different name, which I'll let you use. 43:17 Is it not possible that they wanted those phones to verify that they aren't being used as proxy phones for the communications of General Sibiya in the same way that Sergeant Nkosi's phone was being used for 43:31 then there must be a warrant of search and seizure into their phone. So there was no warrant of that nature? There's no that. The warrant in search and seizure, it talks about, and this is very funny, but let's leave it for the law enforcement agents. The warrant that were used on General Spear is the same, at the same time, they were doing it for Senzo Mkunu. 43:59 Because it happened same day. And how did you find out that it was happening? Look, I'm a comrade and I'm a citizen of this country. Who would know? No, we didn't know. We heard it from you. 44:09 No, it was on the media. I don't see it in the media. I heard it first from you, actually. No, no, no. It was on the media. 44:16 It was on the media. 44:19 I think it was all over those media. Again, media is not only the TV. There are many things. It was even on Twitter. I actually found it on Twitter. 44:35 And then make a call to a few other comrades. And then they said it's true. They were that such and such for the second time. You understand? And protectors, my brother, they are not there to be sent as an ice boy. 44:54 That duty is to protect the principal. 44:58 And we wouldn't expect any. When I see a protector, I see someone who is protecting the principal so that the principal can be saved. Not someone who's been sent there and there. So even when Sergeant Fanny was saying whatever that he was saying, I could not believe it. 45:17 But you've made a comment intimating that General Mkwanazi's driver was an ice boy for him. 45:24 Is it? How can it? No, I never made that comment. You said that the drivers of the people who were arresting Sibiya used to be drivers. But I never said Mkwanazi. 45:34 You implied it? No. Or it was another general? 45:37 No, I think you are here, but your mind is somewhere else. Okay. Where we are not sitting. Because you are saying things that are not relatively... 45:47 I said for a certain general. Okay, you didn't specify. No. Why should I mention people's name? Okay. Unnecessarily so. But the question is, if you are saying that... Police officers who operate either as drivers or as protectors stick to their role. Sergeant Kosi did not send messages or you were surprised that he said that. But Sergeant Kosi was not a protector. No, I'm just using him as a... Yeah, there's a different... You said you didn't believe that he was honest in that respect. I'm saying Sergeant Kosi was not a protector. Neither he was not a driver. 46:18 Okay, so his case is different. His case is different. And the drivers are also different. He said that I don't believe in him. 46:24 I'm just saying I don't expect the drivers to be the ice boy of the principal. 46:30 Because that's not their role. We saw the WhatsApp messages, though, at the commission between Vusi Matlala and Sergeant Ghosi and some communications about General Sevilla. 46:41 But they don't collaborate to General Sevilla. What I've seen and what I've read... In that commission. 46:47 When he said, tell Kat to make a turn to come to the son's party, did you not... 46:54 But is that an iceberg that would carry something? I didn't see that one. 46:59 Even if I would have seen it, I would not believe it. 47:03 Why? Why would Kat not call the principal himself or the principal called Kat if they had a relationship? 47:09 Because what the testimony seems to reveal is that witness F and Sergeant Faninkosi, same person, was actually operating as a conduit in the same way that it may be. 47:21 Not to say we don't know. I don't believe. 47:23 I'm still waiting for it to be ventilated in the court of law. Which one? This one about the protectors or surgeon course? 47:29 No, no, no. I'm saying for the surgeon course. Until when it goes to court... 47:34 not with certain people that have their own narrative and their own agenda. Sergeant, whatever that is there, let it go to court of law and be ventilated there. And from the court of law, then I would agree the outcome. 47:48 With everything that's happening, right, around General Sabia, and this is my parting question, do you still maintain that he's a child of God? He is. 47:58 He is. Look. 48:01 Jesus never came for the saints. 48:05 And the church is not a place for the saints, for the perfect ones. 48:12 We all made mistakes. Yes. And the most important thing is for us to repent that I made a mistake. And one will then be taken to God. 100%. So if I have friends, I've made mistakes many times. What's your scripture? You understand? 48:28 This is a relevant scripture. And that's why I told you we're going to discuss scripture a little bit. Because I was anticipating that we'll have scriptural... Yeah, of course. Bishop, Proverbs 1, 10 to 19, is the one which says to the son that he must not go with sinful men and not allow them to entice him. He must not go with the men who say, come with us, let us wait for innocent blood, let's ambush some harmless souls. The reason why I'm bringing it up... 48:56 You have cited the wrong scripture for the wrong situation. 48:59 No, no, no. I haven't finished. No, no, no. You asked me to let you finish. 49:01 I'm going to cut you because you are coming with meandles. The scripture that you have read, it's when I know that my G is engaged in a certain thing that is not right. I'm saying from where I'm sitting, I have not seen any wrong side of general sphere. Actually, I've seen... 49:24 It's not that you don't know General Sevilla. And I wish you know him rather than this party that has been portrayed because of the position of a national commissioner. That is the reason why, and I told you when we started, Zuma faced the same thing. People get to be recruited. 49:41 You said Winnie Mandela. 49:42 Even Winnie Mandela. And certain things that he did not do it. There are many leaders who have gone through these things. Even these people that I... I came with my church members. They know you will not find me in a place where they sell liquor. They know you will not find me with a person... who I engage in things that is not right. And I have demonstrated in my own church. Here's my question about this scripture. We were even given money by someone who we know is not doing the right things. 50:16 And you gave it back. No, we refused. Okay. The person stood up and grabbed the mic at church on Sunday. Here's my question though, Bishop. And we refused a million rand, not just a 100 rand. I think it's a good thing. 50:26 We refused because we know this person... 50:30 is dealing with things that are not nice. Let me ask the question and then you'll see how it applies. Vusi Matlala has been accused of attempted murder and other acts of violence from as far back as 2023. I don't know Vusi Matlala. But the time at which we got to find out about Vusi Matlala and also Hangwani Maumela and other people, Tembisa Hospital, those type of things, it's been in the last six years. So my question, therefore, is, have you spoken to General Sibiya about his friends? Because what we heard at the Matlanga Commission from Witness ABC seems to indicate that Katiso Mulefe, who is one of the associates of General Sibiya, Vusi Matlala, who seems to be very close to General Sibiya, and there's voice recordings which seem to indicate that he gave him lots of money. 51:16 And I think that is in the public domain. And you seem to have been following the commission. Have you spoken to him about those friendships which seem to be against this Proverbs 10 to 19? Because as his spiritual leader, I would assume that you would say to him, look, Sibir, you're a great guy. We're going to pray for state capture. But what about these ones here? Why don't we allow the... No, no, no. 51:38 No, no, no. No, no, no. Let me address the gentleman. 51:42 You might thought you have... No, I'm just genuinely interested in the answer, yeah. 51:49 Sorry. No problem. 51:52 When Dantam Kwan has made a press conference, I phoned General Speer. 52:01 He sat down. 52:04 He said, Bishop, I've been accused of dockets that are, you know, gaining dust in head office. 52:16 He said, they are 121. No? 52:20 You can come to my office. I refused. 52:26 He then brought a presentation that he had, that they normally have, which I've seen been presented into the parliament. 52:34 And somebody who is in the parliament shared with me that presentation. 52:41 And we found that in those dockets, some of them, the last time we investigated, it was 2021, 2022, 2023. 52:50 So from 24, 25, there was no any inviscations in this docket. 52:56 Right? 52:58 And this is the life of people. You know what makes me sick is that politicians and these generals, they are playing in the blood of the people who have innocently been killed. That's what makes me sick. 53:17 And I know a lot of people said I should not talk about this. And this is the last interview that I'm taking. I will not be taking another interview because I have been followed as I'm talking to you. 53:28 And as I'm changing vehicles, I use the one that are not linked to me because I have been followed. Yeah, there's a little. So I'm saying to you, then ask him about Kat. Mm-hmm. 53:42 I asked him about one thing I know. General Sebiya was accused by a politician, by the government, to say he's working with the Democratic Alliance. 53:52 Because Emin Mashaba gave him a job. 53:56 And he was accused of a number of things. 53:58 And they wanted to get, General Sebiya, they wanted to get rid of him. Not now, but a very long time. 54:06 The man has been under scrutiny. That is why it's difficult for me to believe in all this accusation because the man has been, you can't be under scrutiny. You know you've been investigated in or off while you came back from city of Johannesburg. 54:25 You know you've been accused daily like in the media. 54:29 And you know that you've been suspended And not only have been suspended, they tried to open cases against this. And it goes to the NPR and said, no, we can't arrest a person for these things. For a very long time. But what does he say when you talk about Kat Matal? He said, look, I'm not involved in these things. 54:54 I've been framed. 54:56 What do you do when you're your own person? Because the Bible says, the same Bible that you read, In Matthew, it says that if your brother, you have seen him doing the wrong things, you go to him. Here, I have not seen him. I have heard. 55:16 But what did I do? The Bible says you go to him. 55:19 I went to him. We took about two hours. 55:23 I even brought my two, I mean, my lawyer and an advocate. 55:29 to sit down with, to understand, because we were about to make a statement. 55:37 And also, the organization that I represent, which is IGSA, we're about to open a case against all these things that are happening, all the allegations that were made against all the people. I then have to go back to the committee and say, guys, I have spoken with a person. 55:56 Why can't we not wait? 55:59 Because the president said he will establish a commission. At that time, he had not done anything. Right? Now, we know what is the agenda. 56:10 And that is why other people, when they went to commission, they didn't talk about meeting Kate Matala. 56:18 Because really, if you are a crime buster, you would have detailed that I met with Kate Matala. 56:25 And for you to omit that information in the public, it's questionable and deserves scrutiny. 56:32 For someone to be able to... So it is in that regard because the press conference of General Entente at the time was questionable. Because if you look at... You talk about the municipality... 56:52 General Mtantam Kwanaz is from KZN. 56:57 Where there's been a lot of happenings in the media, even public protectors, talking about municipalities, even colluding with the number of people. And we see it on media that politicians so-and-so is arrested, is facing these matters. 57:17 Why the madhanga? 57:19 If you talk about political interference, Why would Madanga only focus on Tswane and not deal with Joubek and not deal with Polukwane municipality? If this is a fair exercise and not deal with the Tequini municipality. So when we gather the intelligence, when people will speak of intelligence, not this WhatsApp chat GDP or what is that? Chat GDP intelligence. 57:45 Listen to stalwarts that we know. People who have been trained by Mossad and all this other thing. They told us and said, hey, chief, this is the bigger problem. 58:00 Were you invited to General Sibir's birthday party? I don't do party. No, his birthday party at his home. I don't do parties. Really? I don't. Even like restaurant? Look, I don't do parties. Okay, let me ask the question. 58:14 There's a video of you when they were singing. They were having a party for you. 58:18 That's the thing. It's AI. No, it's not AI. It's a true video, that one. That's the thing. I was called without not knowing what was happening. Oh, it was a surprise. I was told that there's a meeting. 58:31 I must then call this individual. Okay. 58:35 If I'm going to a serious event that concerns me, I will dress properly. 58:41 Yeah. 58:41 So I just went there. I even went with my niece. 58:45 Yeah. 58:45 When I realized there's these characters there, I then said what? I said, hey, mana, you can't be in a place with all men. 58:53 Yeah. 58:54 Rather Uber and go back home. I sit there. I don't do parties. You will not find me in parties. 59:01 But the characters were your comrades. No, no, no. 59:03 There were other people that I did not want to be with them there. Stuart Shanik's wife was there though. 59:10 Well, I don't know who his wife was. The coloured lady who was with you. I don't know who his wife was among the people because there were many women that were sitting there. 59:19 She spoke and spoke to you and gave you some well wishes on your birthday. 59:23 Look, I didn't know it was a birthday party. Who goes in a birthday party with a shirt that is dead, really? 59:30 Okay, but that was not even my question, though, Bishop. I think people are curious how you know these people, Stuart James and Fadel Adams, all of these guys. But aside from that, no, no, that's not my question. 59:41 We've got a video of that party. 59:42 No, but you can't say people are curious. That's a comrade. 59:46 No, but can I ask the question? Richard Shibiri said he did. I thought you would have gone to General Sibir's party. I did not. 59:51 I was not there. 59:53 It's fine. Richard Shibiri was invited, General Richard Shibiri, he was invited to Sibir's party. And he testified at the Madlanga Commission on day 72, 3, and 4, if I'm not mistaken, and on another day. He said he was invited, but he did not go. And the messages that he was questioned about by the commissioners and evidence leaders indicated that he did not go because he said that General Sibir wanted a report on Katiso Mulefe's arrest for the other side. 60:22 I don't know if you saw that testimony. 60:24 Well, look, I'm saying to you, I do not want to comment on that, particularly on that question, because I'm not... I mean, if the only... 60:42 I have not heard him saying that. Let me rather say that one. I did not hear the generals via saying those things. And if... 60:51 Indeed, those messages were there. Why was General Speer not put into test? I can't believe what the other person is saying. No, no, let me finish. 61:01 Don't lecture me. No, he was. 61:03 They did ask him about this. No, Chief, allow me to respond. I said, I watched the interviews of General Speer. I'm saying to you, I didn't hear that. 61:15 And even if I would have heard that, I would have waited. 61:21 for the court of law to make a determination. 61:25 Because WhatsApp message, there are many people who had said they met with me, they gave me this much, and while they've not, I mean, they buy me a house in Sunten, while I do not even know. And I don't even stay in a set estate. I don't even have the... 61:49 The house in that particular estate. So people could say, people could write a message. Somebody said, I'm meeting with him. 61:57 We are flying to Dubai together. 61:59 And I've never. People got arrested and this message was found. He said he went with me to Dubai. That happened to you? Somebody said that. I don't even know the comrades. 62:11 You understand? I've never met this comrade. I'm saying people are able to say things. There are people who are saying, I think, I can't remember exactly, but do you know there are people that would say they're very close to Mark G? 62:28 Yeah. And even takes money from people to suggest that they will get Mark G to bring them into the podcast. 62:35 Hmm. 62:36 It does happen. People are malicious. 62:39 People are... And the people that are running this campaign are witch. 62:44 So you think that General Sibiri... It was a phone call, by the way. It was a recorded phone call between him and Witness A where Sibiri said that he didn't want to go to Sibiri's party. 62:54 If you can send me that recording. 62:56 which I did not have heard General Sibir accepting those allegations. 63:02 No, this is in Shibiri's testimony. He was speaking to Witness A prior to the Madlanga Commission. And he told Witness A that I don't want to go to Sibir's birthday party, General Sibir's birthday party, because he's going to ask me to report back on the Katiso Mulefe arrest matter for the other side. And it was a subject of, I think, perhaps two or three hours of cross-examination or what the commissioners call probing, where they were saying to him, who is the other side? My question was really, if you were familiar with that exchange... No, no, no, I'm not. 63:31 And again, really, I'm so confused. Why would you even ask me that question? Because it's not just about Vusi Matlala where the issues of the... Well, now you seem to be having a lot of happenings in your mind. 63:44 LAUGHTER 63:45 And I can't help you to deal with that neandros that you are carrying. 63:50 Please, I'm not a spokesperson for Sibiri or either the commissions. I'm here to say I was not at the strip club. 64:01 Oh, okay. 64:02 That's my only... That's the only... So what you are dealing with, and let's say for argument's sake, If General Spearhead asked him, because the other side, I think that is edited. Because WhatsApp audio can be edited, by the way. 64:17 It was a phone call. It was a recorded phone call. 64:18 I'm saying to you, you see, your problem is that you are like a woman who... Ah, no, no, no, you can't. Bishop, please be careful with that. No, let me use that phrase. 64:28 Okay. Yeah. 64:29 Then he will argue later. 64:32 You are like a woman who, she's pregnant. 64:34 LAUGHTER 64:36 Who wants a beggar by this time? And you bought a beggar, doesn't eat. And goes and wants a Nandu. You buy her, she doesn't eat. She said, I want... She doesn't know what she wants. And end up eating things that does not make sense. Those are your kind of equations. I'm sorry. 64:56 So listen, Kotsamur, you keep mentioning, right? 65:01 The SAP Succession Battle. 65:04 Well, can you deep dive on that? What do you mean by that? What's happening in the SPS? 65:08 Look, since the democracy, you would know what happens when the person is a commissioner. It's left with two years or one year. 65:18 There's these things. 65:20 And that's a deeper problem. 65:22 And when you dig deeper, and I was in one engagement, we were looking at, and this is only 2019, We had sat as IPSA, an independent advisory body council. 65:43 We had sat and said, our country is going to the wrong directions. From the state capture, you would expect much better now. And we must say, Cyril have tried. President Cyril have tried. 65:56 But some of his ministers... 65:59 are actually not helping him, either taking him back. We can't be sitting here after billions were spent on the state capture, and there's no accountability of it. 66:10 And no one has been arrested. 66:12 Oh, money, okay, there's few money that have been recubed back, and so on. But you would expect more. 66:20 Do you understand what it is? If you look at the argument of MK, versus the president in him when he appointed the Madanga Commission, you will understand some of the reasons that they've cited there is that we have so much commissions, but implementation is a problem. Yeah, but what are the factions in the SAPS? Can you just tell us? Well, the factions are very clear. There's a faction between Ndantam Kwanaz and Generosbya. 66:51 That is why, and I borrow the words from Julius Malima, everybody that scrutinized Ntantamkonas gets to be a target of inviscations. 67:06 Now, I can tell you now, if all members of parliament, we can take their phones, including of MK members, You can have their phones, the ANC, the TA, and all these things. You are going to, this country can ban because of how things have interest itself. It can't be that you, and that's a problem. My only problem with this regime, which I categorize them as the N3 cabal, which is Masemula is just a victim in the process. 67:49 Masemula is one of a very good policemen. And of course, he has an issue that he must answer for 400,000. That the former police commission of Mpumalang, provincial commission of Mpumalang, alleged, which I can tell you they were never investigated that, Because I know. So what we've found being a problem is that the only problem that police then, the top brass, decide to join the ministers. 68:23 Will that be they want to be appointed? 68:25 And in the process, there will be things that certain politicians should not be investigated, get to be protected, not be arrested. Because if you still have NPA responding to the Minister of Justice on who must be arrested, who must not be arrested, a clear example, Massimula got to be arrested with Kumano. 68:50 Masemula is a PFMA, right? 68:56 It's arrested on a similar charges of a PFMA, right? 69:02 Why when you withdraw this one, You don't go to Ace Makwesu as a premier. 69:09 He was not even, he was a premier that the issue is that he should be account, because he's an accounting officer. Now, why then do you withdraw of Masemula? The issue is one. 69:21 Masemula is a national commissioner. 69:22 Yeah. That's not the reason, though. No, no, no. 69:24 That was articulated. No, no, no. Let me, my own understanding. Masemula is charged off on a PFMA. 69:32 by IDEC, right? It was ventilated in the commissions that even that Masemula was even warned about tender. Even Minister Senzu Mkunu told this one to say, how did you appoint this tender? They won't have cared. Yeah. Because Matala's tender, when it was awarded, Masemula was there. Mm-hmm. 70:02 He should have done much better. He should have refused to sign. 70:05 There is no tender that goes out. 70:08 without my similar signature, on my own understanding. I have a question. The first one is, is General Feroz Khan part of Sibir's faction? I don't know. Who is in the Sibir faction? 70:18 I said the Sibir faction, there is faction between Sibir and Mkantam Kwanas. But a faction is people, right? Well, I wouldn't know the people because I'm not part of their, I'm not their secretariat, these two. I'm saying to you, The Reese and Mukwanaz. 70:38 When he was at Adhok, he said, I did the press conference because I didn't want it. 70:44 Somebody to become the acting national commissioner. And that was General Sabia. 70:50 He said it. It's on record. So you can go and formalize yourself with that interview, even when he did the first one. 70:58 So the issue is this. Do you want to tell me that the law enforcement agents, the police in particular, In fact, let me rephrase this. It simply means the police, it's not working. 71:11 If you wait for somebody to be appointed and then you allege that we have a problem. 71:18 While we have people that are dying on the street, we have women that are dying. People are fighting in the bathroom to find who becomes the nature commissioner. And what we looked at was that police should be removed from from reporting to the ministers. 71:37 They should be independent. Even the NPA should be independent because that is why you find we're still struggling with a lot of cases in the... Bishop, yes, I take the point about police reporting independently. 71:53 On the issue of General Massemola, The person who approved Kat Matlala's tender was actually General Mulefe Fani. He's the one who was sitting on the bid adjudication committee. And when General Massimola was notified and when a risk assessment was done by the SAPS risk assessment officer, He then initiated the process to cancel the tender. This was raised at the Matlanga Commission in the exchanges between Commissioner Matlanga as well as advocate Andrea Johnson. 72:27 She was asked not about necessarily the PFMA, which you are saying Ace Makashule was charged for PFMA and also Masemola charged on PFMA. There are some questions around that because the argument was he actually acted in reasonable time based on the information he was given. But the bigger issue that was raised by Commissioner Matlanga was that when it comes to sections 155, 156 and 157 of the Criminal Procedure Act, you need to only add someone to a case if they are accused of the same crime. And then he went through in detail with advocate Andrea Johnson. 73:00 Look, I'm not interested in what you're saying. But the point is, the point, Bishop... 73:04 I'm just being honest, I'm not interested. We're speaking to the audience. It's not for me, it's for the audience. I'm not interested. 73:11 Are we not trying to help chillers to understand... No, no, no, I'm just saying to you, because my own understanding... And what Masimala was saying in ad hoc and his response into ad hoc. 73:25 When he appeared for the first time, this question arose. 73:30 Were you not told about this? And he said, yes, minister alerted me. 73:36 Now, let me finish. 73:37 You must not malfunction. No, no, no. Let's engage properly. No, you are cutting me. You're the one cutting me. I'm listening to you. You're cutting me. Look. 73:49 Look, my brother. 73:51 Don't malfunction, chief. I'll function. Let me drink some water. For the sake of chillers, I want you to go back and check the engagement of Masemola. 74:05 And even when he said that we were given the instruction by Minister Senzo, because I heard you say in the risk assessment, he said he was given the letter. The note comes from Minister Senzo that, inviscate this tender. 74:24 Because my understanding is that this tender was not appointed properly. 74:30 Masemula then appointed the risk people to inviscate it. 74:35 And that was the people of risk assessment. So if you look, you go back to that version, you will find that. Now, I'm still saying, the national commissioner, according to the act of SAPS, is an accounting officer. 74:55 Every tender that has this certain amount of money, which is even Kate's contract, fall within the responsibility of Mase Mula. You've never got any tenders, right? No, I don't do tenders. I don't believe in tenders. Do you help people with them? I don't. Why should I help people with tenders? It was a story. I'm not a consultant. I don't do those things. I don't. So they were lying about you. Look, I don't do tenders. I mean, I work in the mines. 75:24 I don't do tenders because I know one thing that my grandmother told me. 75:31 She said it in Vendha. 75:36 And that's what she said. And she said, don't do tenders. 75:48 I don't do tenders myself. She said, he said that her grandmother told him that when Mandela wins and becomes the president, people are under the perception they're going to eat, but they're not. A lot are going to get arrested. 76:07 And that's what she said. They're going to starve. So that's why... If they get into politics. That's why they decided to go to mining. 76:13 Okay. 76:14 That's why today, I don't do tenders. And I've never done tenders. Can go to CSD. They will tell you, This one is a company he has never, there's no history of me. What about Hangwani Maomera? Do you know him? I can't, I don't know him. I can't, you know you're from Venda that surnames get bigger. Maomera, you see in Venda you have Maomera, which is Medzi. You have Maomera, which is, there are a number of them. 76:44 So you're not related at all? We're not. And you've never met him? I've not met her. And what I wish to meet him, because I'm told he's a billionaire. 76:54 I wish to meet him to advise him. To say, for you to be able to win this, come clean, confess, and apologize to the nation. And what about his mother? 77:04 Have you met his mother? No. 77:06 Okay. Judge Maumela? Do you know Judge Maumela? 77:08 I know Judge Maumela. No, he's a judge. Who doesn't know Judge Maumela? 77:13 No, I mean like as an interperson. 77:14 I know him on the TV. On the TV. Yeah, he's a judge. 77:19 I wanted to ask you about Northwest a little bit because Suleiman Karim is a regional, I think it's Ward 7 in Northwest, one of the wards there in Mahike. 77:30 Are we here to talk about Suleiman Karim? 77:33 The reason why it matters, just if you just allow. 77:36 My brother, I don't want to... You don't know him? Look, I don't want to be entangled by things that has nothing to do with me. 77:45 I know generals here. I never said I know. I know you. I know Maggi. Now you are going to ask me about the whole of AMC. AMC is a broader church. It has different people. I don't know Suleiman Karim. 77:59 I don't know him. I wish to know him. If you have his number... 78:03 Please tell him that I'm looking for him. 78:06 You were the convener of branches though at some point there in Northwest. Never. It's not true. We saw you on TV. It said the convener of branches and then you were talking in 2018 about how you... No, but not in Northwest. 78:18 Where was it? I'm a member of ANC. 78:22 Not in Northwest. And when you are convening of branches, you speak of any matters that concern the ANC. But you spoke about Northwest in particular. Because there was a matter that concerned the ANC there. 78:33 ANC, it's a broad church. 78:36 And then you guys sent a report requesting that the PEC be disbanded. Myself? You said that on the TV, that you guys sent a report recommending that. 78:44 No, look, if there is things that are happening in KZN, does it mean that I'm a convener in KZN? 78:51 You don't speak because the matter in Limpopo. I come from Limpopo. 78:56 My branch of the ANC is in Limpopo. 78:59 So you can't then say to me, I was not a convener in Northwest. I know Northwest as I go and come back, go and preach and come back. 79:09 But you said on SABC that in 2018 that you guys had sent reports. Sending my brother. 79:17 Let me say it in vain. They will interpret it. Okay. 79:21 Because he seems not to be understanding what I'm saying. 79:24 But for the sake of time, let me say this. 79:26 When you speak on the matter of a national interest, you don't speak on them because they are happening only in Kauteng and Limpopo where I stay. 79:39 If there is an issue that we know it has a potential to destroy the life of people, or when the enemy... 79:51 rises its ugly head. 79:54 We must go after that head. 79:56 So it does not mean that you stay there or you're a convener there. 80:01 Our responsibility as South African, it is to address any injustice. By the way, I'm liberal. 80:09 So I believe in the rule of law. If there's no rule of law, I intervene. Whether you are in Guiano or in Atequin or Mafeking, I intervene. That does not mean, so your question, it suggests that I'm from Northwest. 80:24 I'm not. No, no, I didn't. You said I'm a convener in Northwest. No, I said you were the convener of branches as described in the SABC. No, but how do I convene the branches in Northwest? I don't. I don't know, but you spoke on it. And the question I wanted to ask... Do you believe anything that the media writes and suggests? Usually they ask the person before the interview to say, how would you like to be described? So were you misdescribed? 80:46 But did you ask me a question that you are asking me now here? Absolutely. 80:49 I was getting to a specific question. 80:51 No, no, no. But I'm saying before we even do the interview, you never ask me. No, no. You never discuss on what you are discussing. 80:57 I'm just helping Saul because he's an American. They have to ask you how you want to be described. All I wanted to ask, Bishop, all I wanted to ask because... I don't know Karim. 81:05 Yeah. I wish to know him. Okay. Okay. 81:07 And if you have a number for him... I don't, I don't know. We're all looking for him. We hear that he drinks smoothies at Woolworths, but we don't know. The reason I was asking, just so that the chillers understand... Did you saw him drinking smoothies? They didn't want to play the video. The reason I was asking, so that chillers understand, is that... And they said he's moneyed. 81:24 So you must bring that guy to me. He's money from tenders. You don't want tender money. Your grandmother told you not to touch that money. 81:31 No, I don't want, but if you give it to me, it's from tenders. But you'll give back the million, Mos. You'll give it back. 81:38 If you find out it's dirty. Bishop, all I wanted to ask so the chillers understand, Vusi Matlala, Hangwani Maumela and Suleiman Karim have been closely linked in Northwest Tendas. I'm only asking about that because of that convener of branches label and because he is a regional treasurer there. 81:58 I do not know them. Okay. I don't know them. 82:03 People that... 82:05 What I know, why people confuse me with Morgan. I even made a TikTok video. I saw it, yeah. To say, I do not know him. 82:15 The president doesn't know him. No one seems to know him. He does not have any lifestyle on social media. We don't know him. I've never seen him in Vendor. 82:24 I even ask around, you know. 82:27 No, you've answered this. And what I want to get to is my next question, right? Because we've seen and we've spoken about this so many times on the show. I'm sure you've spoken about it as well. Where we see a lot of church leaders, like, they seem to have political connections somehow. You understand? What's going on there? Can you explain that relationship to us? 82:45 Matji, can I ask you a question? No. 82:47 Have you not been invited by any politician? 82:50 To a party of a drink or a meeting. No, no, no, no, not at all. You see, assumptions, it is the biggest weapon that have destroyed many people. 83:01 Because we assume that churches are not registered and they are not being followed. 83:09 Churches, our church is registered under NPC, non-profit companies. 83:18 you get scrutinized where the money is coming from. 83:22 And there's what we call it in a financial intelligence within the banking system. 83:27 I remember sometimes we once did a crusade because they know our church. By the way, our church is not rich, Macbeth, as people portrayed in the media. 83:35 Our offering is not even more than 10,000 on Sunday. 83:42 And they know it comes from the church members. 83:46 And it gets taken to the bank. Sometimes we went for a crusade. 83:51 And in that crusade, we then received money that was more than $60,000. 83:58 It went and gets banked. Our account was frozen. 84:03 So the common account, where did you get the money? 84:06 We had to take the videos when people were contributing the money. It took about three to four months for our account to be reopened. 84:16 So there are churches that are involved in money laundering. You cannot say they are not there. 84:25 As much as there are NGOs that are involved in money laundering. Because this problem emanates from the society. 84:32 Because that politician who is a thug, it's from the community. That pastor is a member of the society. 84:42 That woman in the NGO is a member of the society. 84:47 And these manifestations are as the results of the collapsed state that is not working. 84:55 It's not just people being greedy. It's people being greedy. So you cannot exempt a pastor from a politician. 85:04 You cannot separate them because they're all... Same WhatsApp group. They're all from the... 85:10 But Bishop, I wanted to ask, because you said that they check everything, the 10,000, the 60,000, how are these corrupt pastors laundering the money? 85:18 Look. 85:20 Maybe they fabricate the offerings. Look. 85:22 Yeah. 85:23 I don't know. 85:25 Kostle, you work in a church. How are you guys doing it today? 85:27 I've never worked in a church. How would you do it? I don't know because I've never done that. Yeah, yeah. Do you understand what I'm saying? But they do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, if there was a time the Hawks, by the way, it was even Jonas Bia, who raided one of the churches in Hebrew and the drugs were found. In a church? In a church. What? Some years ago when he was still on, when he was still ad hoc. That's crazy. They raided a Nigerian church. 85:58 I'm not saying it's only Nigerians. Of course, of course. We do have our own fellow brothers that are involved in legal mining that are alleged that we arrested and so on. So the problem, it's a societal problem. Look, I once spoke about Bushiri. And the next week, I went to my church. 86:19 We were now five. 86:21 How? From 56 people we had. 86:24 51 had left. Because they were subscribing to him. 86:28 Look, I spoke against... You spoke about this individual. 86:34 You run a risk of losing. What did you say about him? 86:38 Oh, is that why now you said that he's a young man who's just growing? 86:41 Yeah. 86:41 Look, yeah, that's what I'm saying. What did you say? What did you say? Look, I said this man, he said, no, he was saying I can pray for a car without an engine and the car can move. I said that's nonsensical. It will never happen. 86:55 And you lost 50 members from that? 86:56 They left me. That's crazy. Bishop, this guy wanted to give you the million that you turn back. What did he want to do it? How did he want to do it? Like cash or transfer? No, we want to buy a land. 87:11 In fact, we wanted to buy a land at that time. 87:17 And so we then said to church. 87:21 And the guy was there. 87:23 And he said to me, it's a white person. 87:28 So he said to me, no, I can give you a million. 87:35 But something they do not know. 87:40 everybody that is in my church, not mine is mine because the church is not mine. It belongs to God. The church where I attend. So I want people to understand, to distinguish when I said mine. I'm not saying that I own. 87:55 That thing that tomorrow when I die, my son should be the one taking over. I don't believe in those things. 88:01 I believe the church, it belongs to everybody within the church. Yeah. 88:06 So this guy, so I know everybody's in the church because I know people who have a system. 88:14 Because there's five of them, right? 88:15 Who can run and know who are these people, what do they do, and all these things. 88:21 Is there witchcraft in churches and stuff? 88:24 Look, the people that are in church... 88:28 They are coming from a community where there's witchcraft. There are certainists. There are certainists that are leading churches in South Africa. 88:39 You could disagree and agree. Look at things that people, what do you call these things where you give me a sticker that is, I give a sticker that is my face. 88:49 And I tell you, when you are going through a problem, you must touch that face. And you're going to be heaved. That's nonsense. 88:56 You know, I give you water and say, pray for yourself. You must pray yourself and all these things. What is it that is in that? Why don't you tell me to go and use my own water from my own home? You are trying to control me. But because our people have now entered into that underworld, right? If you speak about it, you're going to be insulted. So I don't believe on those things. I preach the name of Jesus. I don't even, you can ask many politicians, they will tell you one thing. 89:30 If you ask me to do things that is out of line, I'm not going to be a fan. 89:36 No, beautiful. Ghost lady, because we're almost out of time, any last questions for us? 89:40 Okay, I'll just do one. Just one question. So there was, what happened in 2018, there was a report that there was a woman that came, who was part of the ANCL member, in Mahigeng, saying that you had asked her to be in a relationship with her. Okay. And obviously she declined your advances, but then later she got removed. She was no longer a member. 90:09 Oh, and she was married. 90:10 I saw that story. Yes, she was a married woman. 90:12 They said you removed her from the WhatsApp group. Okay, which one is which? A member or a WhatsApp group? 90:18 I think it's a WhatsApp group. No, it's also, it's all, she was a member as well. 90:23 I don't have power to remove people in a WhatsApp group. That's the first thing. Secondly, I don't have power to remove anybody in the ANC, in a membership of the ANC. I don't have... 90:38 I'm not even close. So did that happen, though, that story, what she's saying? 90:41 Look... Because the whole text, that was... Well, I denied those things. 90:48 And I'm still denying it. 90:50 I don't know... 90:51 I saw it on newspaper and I asked for the right to reply at the particular time which I was given. And I did, I said whatever that I've said. But I want to say this. 91:05 You see, in the politics, in the game of power, we get to be accused so many times. People get to be accused of things that I've not done. 91:17 Look, we were in Northwest, no? 91:23 Now, when we're in Northwest, we received an intelligence that I must move out from the hotel. 91:32 And we went and sleep at the house of a lady that I know. She's not an ANC member. 91:39 She's an EFF member. She's a very close friend of mine. 91:44 She's a lecturer. 91:46 So... 91:47 We called her and we said, okay, we have these issues. So it was myself and my team. We had two vehicles. 91:54 So we drove to that particular house. We slept there. 91:59 That is why when these allegations were raised that in the evening and so, and there were people who spoke first before me, Because they said, clearly, Comrade Mohamed was not there. And I left because we had received an intelligence. People don't know. 92:19 When you meet with me, or I'm about to meet with you, we already know who you are talking to on your WhatsApp. 92:29 They go, they listen to your voice call, then I can come. That's why I don't just go anywhere. 92:34 This is the Russians or it's a different intelligence? 92:37 It's Russian friends that I have. 92:39 Oh. 92:39 Because they check, because I have experienced eight bullets coming from the ANC meeting. And people called us for a meeting, not knowing these people had worked with the system. 92:56 You know, one police brigadier once called me and said, move from this center. 93:05 I refused because I'm a bit, I've got a tough character. So I refused. I continued eating. 93:14 When we leave in the entrance, bullets were exchanged. 93:20 You understand? That is in 2018, the beginning, there in February and so on, where my family had to sit down and say, look, leave the politics. 93:34 And my son... 93:39 And my daughter stayed away from the ANC from that particular time. So that's why your daughter hates the ANC? Even my son. It's difficult even to convince anybody in my own household about the ANC, but the experience that happened. Because the people... 93:57 When Cyril was campaigning to become... When people were campaigning for Cyril to become a president, we were some of the people that loved the course, right? Right? And when we loved the course, we supported the idea because that's what we felt. We were tired of Zuma, guys. We're tired of things that were happening. But in the process, there were a lot of things associated with. 94:28 So we know what was coming with. So after... 94:35 The engagement that happens with me in Pumalanga in Sekunda when I was called to address the comrade in that Winnie Mandela lecture. After I address it, as we're coming, we're ambushed. 94:53 And you can't even go to the police because you don't trust the police. Why are they trying to kill you? Hmm. No, I mean, there were a lot of things happening at that particular time. So, where even... And because when we passed the last toll gate, you see the toll gate when you are coming from Pumanang? 95:16 Yeah. 95:16 The one that is Sasol garage. Yes, yes, yes. Before you enter the whole thing. As we passed there, we fired with another bullet. 95:25 We rolled in the car. 95:28 You know, I'm with my son here and the driver who was driving me. We rode with the car. We went down there. 95:36 That is where I started to realize that, hey, God loves me. I was not serious with Christianity at the time. 95:46 I was not thinking of becoming a pastor. But all these events, even when my wife died on a car accident, which it was a car that I was supposed to drive. Just after the ANC National Conference, we swapped the car with my wife. 96:05 When we swapped, the car was driving. Went to Santana, parked the car. Then she took my car, drove to Limpob. 96:16 As she passed Pulu Kwan, it was a terrible accident that claims the life of five people. So it is in that time where I went, I almost committed a suicide by the way. Sorry about that. Let me finish this story. I almost committed a suicide. I entered to my car, very fast car. I entered inside. 96:43 I drove to heart abuse. 96:45 I collided with a bridge and nothing happened. 96:51 I went to the mountain. 96:55 You know, thinking that, yeah, I'm going to hang myself or kill myself in any means that I could get. 97:03 Because when I left Santan, I drank the alcohol for the first time that time, and it was the end of it. 97:11 I just entered to a bottle stall. And I ask in, you see in Rambak, as you are leaving Santa and I use the Rambak way. 97:21 Because I wanted to come to hard beers. 97:24 I bought alcohol that I don't even know the name until today. 97:27 I drink it all of it. 97:30 Just like in a one sip. 97:33 I could not get drunk until... That's when I realized that God loved me. I could not get drunk until I had a beer. 97:41 Then I collapsed there to get a long story short. That is when I... 97:47 Some of my friends and family that are in business... My family is in business, but not with tenders. They will never do tenders. 97:54 Politics sounds crazy, man. Sounds like mafia. 97:57 So from that time, I don't. Even the girl I propose... 98:02 Because I'm not married. 98:04 There's no way I cannot be single. I'm not a stone. 98:08 I do feel what other people feel. 98:11 Even the girl, I would have to check you and check what is happening about you before I propose you. By the time I propose you, I check what is happening. And I also address you to say, be careful of this. People will come. So people are coming. I have these WhatsApp messages. 98:32 Where a lady was sending me a news. Naked stuff. 98:38 Naked stuff. 98:40 And at that time, I'm sleeping alone. 98:42 Naked stuff. 98:43 I can't pray recovery at that particular time. I look at this and I'm like, look, there is a problem. 98:52 No, no, no, Bishop. This one. 98:57 You can... I will take a snapshot and send it to you. 99:02 I'm saying... 99:04 These are the kind of things... Where a lady... One of my girlfriends once told me... That... 500,000 was offered to her... To say I have raped her. In 2019. 99:20 She said... For the sake of my job... 99:24 I'm afraid... Because... 99:26 This is what is going to happen. 99:29 Right? So, look, there's a lot of things. So the cabal, that's why I believe. 99:36 I'm not saying it didn't do it in general sphere. But because I got a first-hand experience, even these pastors, don't trust them. Some of them are used. No, no, no. 99:49 I think... Bishop, I don't think you heard me properly. We're very sorry about you losing your wife. No, it's okay. Yeah, pass those condolences. Have you been going for therapy? Because it sounds like it's a lot that... No, I've been. 100:03 I went to the professional ones and I also go to other churches that... I was cancelled at Rema. Okay. A big time and they... Actually, I'm fine. I'm just giving you this picture because I wanted to re-engineer your thinking because it's like you have this. Bishop, I'm offering condolences now. 100:31 Let's wrap it up with one last question and let's keep it brief, man. One last one that you want to ask him. Because I have to go somewhere. 100:39 I must be out of the province. Who do you think is fit and proper to be the national commissioner? 100:47 Look, the person must be taken from outside. Outside the police? 100:52 Outside the police. 100:55 A person that understands law in order. 101:01 Because all of them, if you go to the article by the Democratic Alliance, I think it's IOL, when Mukwanas was appointed to become the provincial commission of Northern Cape, you would know what happens. 101:18 It's there in public. 101:21 Because, thank God for Matanga, but the only slightly mistake they did was to allow Masemula and Mukwanas to form that team. That's the biggest mistake. That will cause South Africa a fortune in the next few years. So the person that must be, according to me, take a person from outside. My reason is there are few. 101:47 We have allowed this system to be weakened for so many years. 101:53 Right? 101:54 It's where it is. Tell me if you have not been stopped by police and not asked a cold drink. 102:00 SPS needs to be restructured altogether. Even how people get ranked gets to be promoted. Because you're promoting a friend of the friends. 102:11 A comrade. 102:13 Not really, I would not say even the comrade, as long as I know you are going to protect me from being scrutinized. One thing I can tell you and I can assure you, I don't. 102:24 My relationship with generosity is of a child of God to a child of God. Anything beyond that, I don't. He knows. Even when he's having his own things with his own people, I tell him, you know, 102:40 No, Bishop Mami, I think on that note, that's a very nice note to wrap it up. Thank you so much for your time. And I also want to say thank you for using this platform to come and speak your piece. 102:51 Because we always offer everyone a right of reply. 102:53 And you must tell those people that that picture there It's AI. I wish you repeated that one. It's AI. It has a potential to damage my life unnecessarily. Because I'm seen as a strip club bishop. Yes, yes, yes. 103:15 Are you happy with President Ramaphosa? 103:20 Look, I'm happy, but... 103:24 I've told him... 103:26 I called him and I told him. I'm so disappointed with how he allowed this lawlessness to happen, even now. 103:39 Because I believe that if somebody has done something wrong, let him be arrested rightly and in a proper way. 103:49 And everybody must be arrested. Let us see. 103:53 Why are we not seeing the arrest of politicians? 103:56 who are fingered in my state capture commission. 104:01 When we're doing an exercise, tick and pass, if then we mean business, let us see, rather than targeting people. Because what we have seen after the state capture is people that supported NDZ that gets to be scrutinized. 104:22 Why are we not seeing this other one? And we have supported Sir Ramaphosa on the base that it will root out corruption, not on the base that politicians will be protected. That I'm not part of it. And his failure to address the issue of alliance, of the SSCP, because that's deeply concerning. Because if SSCP can contest the elections, I can tell you for the survival of the ANC, I mean, I can simply say the ANS is on the exit. 104:53 Because, I mean, I never thought that some opposition party in Mwembe, where I come from, could have this significant impact in challenging a status quo. So I think, and I don't know, maybe because... 105:08 He's also under scrutiny and he's carefully now he trade and so on. But that is killing this country. You can't be doing well outside and fail to fix your own country. And that's the biggest problem. That's where we are right now. We are messed up. Because let me say this. 105:31 There were people that wanted to march at Madhanga. 105:37 And they called me. That's after the interview I did in Rambeck. 105:43 I'm talking about political parties who they have strong and they've got big numbers to say we see now we've been targeted. 105:54 But Bishop, can we meet? I met with those individuals. I won't mention their names. 106:00 And most opposition party were represented. I told them, That's not what I believe in. 106:10 That's not what I believe. I don't believe in chaos. I don't believe that if I have a few views on certain things, I must target other people, go and cause chaos. I believe that Cyril could have done much better, could have dealt with a number of issues, could have addressed the issues properly. Because he did a Madanga commission. He's the one who said, let it be. 106:35 He should have hired people that comes outside of the SAPs to investigate so that you don't see a selective scrutiny. 106:49 The issue on the Texas bosses, how many commission have you had? 106:55 And in those commissions, they talk, that one is a problem, this one is a problem, and this one is... Not only Sibanyone. Now, when you only see Sibanyone, you see that Sibanyone is being targeted. It's clear that it's being targeted. Why can't you not take... 107:10 the reports from this commission, the issue that were recommended by other people who have done commissions before. So Cyril at this moment, and that's my own view, he's my president and I love him and I supported him to be where he is. But here at this moment, he's going to leave the wrong impressions and his legacy is going to be horrible. 107:40 because he comes with an appetite that he's going to root at corruption. Yet, we have not seen people that were arrested, I mean, who got arrested during COVID. 107:51 We've not seen justice there. We have not seen money coming back. 107:55 And, you know, all these kind of things. And these things are precisely because you have this state that is not functioning, particularly NPA. And a clear indication is when this one, churches have been withdrawn. 108:17 And when we don't see the arrest on a certain individual, you can't have people that have case, you know, since the state capture until now. I'm just giving you the few. And they're not arrested. 108:29 The people in Venda, where I come from, even where I stay, I live in Thuando. 108:36 I don't have water. 108:39 I'm a comrade, but I don't have water. 108:42 There is no paved road. 108:46 The water, The billions that were looted in Nandun, till today, there is no justice. Those people are driving up and down with Maseratis and all these things. Those cars that you said we own them, well, we don't own. I've told him. 109:02 I've told him. I've told him. 109:05 I've told him before. And I'm just saying that, President, you are not well advised on a number of things. 109:12 And it's so disappointing because... 109:16 Senza's been targeted because there are those within the ANC feels that he can be a president. 109:22 He gets to be targeted. 109:25 He was never in the state capture report. He gets targeted. 109:30 For him to disband the PKTT, it's clear. There is an article today that appears there. A policeman says, I was tortured to implicate a certain individual. 109:44 Do you really, you have a state that is working? We don't. You see, once they listen to this interview, McGee, I'm going to be another target. Is that that I'm not afraid? Because my death and everything that I'm going to do will symbolize a person who believe in the rule of law and who is not, I don't buy his KLM. That's what my other friend would say. 110:12 Because I don't. I support Cyril. But where he's wrong, we are able to point it up that year. You did not address this. Because after the SSCP conference, I phoned President. I called him. And I talked to Soleil. I said, two of you, you must meet. 110:28 During the Christian memorial, I went to the President. I took President. I took Soleimah Pail. I said, both of you, you must meet and engage. 110:37 Because what the enemy is trying to... And we told the president, there is an intelligence in this country. Before even this Mkwana's press report, we told him to say, there is an aim to remove the ANC out of power. 110:55 I told him, I talked to him. 110:58 I told him, and I said, president, there are people that are having this report. I phone said, no, no, no, no. 111:05 did not even return my calls. Tell them, these are people. 111:11 And the same things that we said during the uprising in KZN, when JZ was arrested, we're told that there are people that are meeting a God intelligence phone the people, relevant people. At that time, they sent them to me. We gave them the name of the hotels that we use and all these things. And then they looked at it. Because we do have friends that care about this country. That we cannot allow the disorder and all these things. Because we know there are medias that are sponsored by... 111:44 but the Israelites intelligent in the country to destabilize this country. I told the president, what he does about it, he keeps quiet. 111:54 And that's bad. 111:56 So we, and we know. 111:59 So what they will do is that they will run a false intelligence about you. They go to a president and say, ah, that one, it's collecting money from General Sebiya. 112:09 And I can tell you right here in the media, he knows I have said it even when he's there. I have never received a cent from generous beer. 112:18 Let me repeat this. I have never received one cent from generous beer. 112:26 Because I don't, if I need money, if I don't have money, I can go to my own family. Will be in the best position to give it to me. Because, you know, if you can go and look at the houses of these generals. 112:44 Unless if Sibir is hiding other properties from me. 112:48 You know, Sibir lives in a house that I don't live in. And I will never live in. 112:53 Makji. His house there in St. Chiron. It's a very disappointing house. 112:58 The one with the impalas. 113:00 I've never seen any Impalas there. None? Is it too tight? When he bought, the Impalas were there from this white person. Oh, okay. And a lot of things that, you know, black people are not good with farming. You understand? Yeah, specifically. A majority of us, you know, the history can prove that. 113:22 I'm saying, the poor guy is living out of a tight budget. 113:29 You understand? When he buys a car, he buys secondhand cars. 113:35 I can't buy a secondhand car. 113:39 I don't want it. 113:42 I don't like a secondhand car. What's your favorite car? 113:46 I love a Toyota car. 113:51 No, I love the Toyota Buggies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's what I'm saying. So there is an aim to destroy the ANC. You see what I'm going to finish. Even when, by the way, the AFRI Forum, the people that went, they are people within the ANC who went and met the AFRI Forum to force them to charge marks. We told these guys... 114:18 They could not listen. I sent a text to Mbags. I said, hey, chief, I want to talk to you urgently. There's this matter. 114:26 I called the bigger chief. The bigger chief said, when he comes from India, we'll meet urgently so that we discuss this matter. Unfortunately, because I had other commitment in Venda, we could not meet. But I can tell you, there's a lot that is going on. This country, do you know that as we are talking now, there are people that are meeting who are planning to do a national march, national shutdown, closer to the elections. 115:00 You can move to what I'm saying now, keep it and not broadcast it. When it happens, you play. Or play, you remind people. There are people that are meeting. 115:12 to destabilize the country. They are founded from outside. They are heavy money. Some of them are within the SPS. 115:21 So you speak, ah, this one is like and all these things. It's okay. 115:31 Some of the things when we are done here, I'll show you, is this message of this particular person. This is the call I did with this person. This is what this person said. 115:42 Don't forget the nudes as well. 115:47 So that's what I can say. 115:49 You deleted them, right? You deleted those nudes. No, my son deleted them. 115:55 But I'm told it could be in the archive. 115:59 Somewhere in the phone. Because I'm not good at using these devices. 116:05 Mighty Jamie, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Really appreciate you, man. On that note, thank you so much, Comrade, Bishop, Rukurubang Amanda. We are here. Podcast and chill. Boom. 116:15 Bye.